Multilingual Lawyer: Kazuto Yamamoto

September 27, 2021 00:42:56
Multilingual Lawyer: Kazuto Yamamoto
USLawEssentials Law & Language
Multilingual Lawyer: Kazuto Yamamoto
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Show Notes

Episode 18

The USLawEssentials Law and Language podcast continues its series of interviews with multilingual lawyers as Stepehn Horowitz speaks with Kazuto Yamamoto, a partner in the Daiichi LPC law firm in Japan who also Chairs the International Committee of the Osaka Bar Association.

Yamamoto-sensei discusses his career path (and travel paths) which have taken him around the world. He shares invaluable advice based on his work as an attorney in Japan, the United States, and China. In addition, Yamamoto-sensei, who earned an advanced degree in the United States, reflects on legal education and improving one’s legal English.

This is a great opportunity to learn from an incredibly accomplished, yet modest, international attorney.

We also learn that Yamamoto-sensei is an avid American football fan!

Here are a few football terms that we hear in this episode and their use in business English

Quarterback (taking the lead on a project)

Huddle up (meet and discuss a situation)

Third and Long (A situation where there is a large challenge and not much time to solve it)

A Hail Mary (A somewhat desperate effort to resolve a problem)

Enjoy the episode and please join the USLawEssentials Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1985330578297158

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 0 00:00:00 Welcome to the U S law essentials law and language podcast, the legal English podcast for non-native English speakers that helps you improve your English, listening, improve your legal English vocabulary and build your knowledge of American legal culture. Speaker 1 00:00:17 All the honorable. Speaker 2 00:00:23 Welcome to us law essentials law and language podcast. I'm your host. Steven Horowitz today's episode continues our series of interviews with multi-lingual lawyers and today's guest is Cazzato Yamamoto, a lawyer in Japan who is a partner with the Osaka based law firm, Daiichi LPC. Um, he's a graduate of Kyoto university and has an LLM from Northwestern university Pritzker school of law. He has also been a visiting attorney at Kirkland and Ellis in Chicago, and it Albright law offices in Shanghai. Um, additionally Cazzato chairs, the international committee of the Osaka bar association. And on top of that, I learned that he is an avid fan of American football, which we will definitely talk about during this interview. Welcome cosmetology. Speaker 3 00:01:19 Thank you so much, Steve. Thank you for inviting me to join this and, um, I enjoy your podcast so much. So the, and this is my very first time to appear on the podcast. So it is an great owner to be a part of the us low essential. Speaker 2 00:01:37 Oh, thank you. Thank you. That's wonderful to hear. Yeah. And, and I think we're all kind of new to this. I, I'm kinda new to this too, so, and, and what time is it in Japan right now? What day and what time? Speaker 3 00:01:50 Um, it is 10 14, um, and Speaker 2 00:01:54 Yeah, and Wednesday. Okay. Yeah. And for me it's nine, 14:00 PM on Tuesday night, and yet we can still do this. What Speaker 3 00:02:03 A thank you for taking up time off night. Speaker 2 00:02:06 Yeah. Okay. So the first question I have for you is what countries have you lived in? And maybe you can tell us a little bit about that. Speaker 3 00:02:15 Okay. Um, I lived in Chicago, us for two years and after that, I lived in Shanghai, China for four months. Okay. Speaker 2 00:02:27 And had you ever been to any other countries before you, before you went to Chicago and Shanghai when you went? Speaker 3 00:02:34 Um, I love to travel, so I taught belt to many countries, including Asian countries and European countries. And, um, and I've been to, um, us, uh, before I lived in us too. Speaker 2 00:02:50 Uh, and had you, had you been to Chicago before? Speaker 3 00:02:52 Oh, never. Um, I, I just visited, uh, uh, west coast before I lived in Chicago Speaker 2 00:03:00 And Chicago. A lot of times. Um, we, we compare Chicago to Osaka, right. They they're like second city. So what, what was it like being in Chicago? Did you, did you feel a connection with it? Speaker 3 00:03:14 Oh, yes. And I feel the, um, Chicago, uh, people in, uh, uh, Midwest is more easygoing I think. And, um, people in Osaka is also very easygoing and, uh, um, very friendly and, um, you know, the Chicago and the Osaka was probably the sister city or something. Okay. Speaker 2 00:03:38 Oh yeah. Yeah. They have a sister city relationship. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of figured they do. Um, and, and how were, how do the winters in Chicago compare to the winters? Speaker 3 00:03:51 Yeah, the very different, uh, winter in struggle was blueberry cold as in though. Um, yeah. Uh, but, um, um, it was just the two years stay for me, so I really enjoyed even the brutal winter weather there. So it was my first time to, um, stay in the frigid cold, um, frozen, uh, weather like that. Speaker 2 00:04:18 Yeah. It's the windy city. Did you, would you agree with that nickname? Speaker 3 00:04:22 Yeah, totally, totally agree with that. Yeah. Especially in winter, it is really hard to walk around outside. Speaker 2 00:04:32 Yeah. I've, I've been to Chicago like once or twice, but it was in the, it was usually like in the summer or in the fall, so I still have, Speaker 3 00:04:40 Yeah. That's why the choice. Speaker 2 00:04:44 And I know Japan's got some great, you know, mountains and then there's Hokkaido up north, but there's anything comparable to, to the sort of situation with Chicago style and whether you were in Japan that you would compare to it. Speaker 3 00:05:00 Oh, I think the winter in Hokkaido is similar to the winter in Chicago. Speaker 2 00:05:07 Yeah. Uh, sort of in the Northern parts of Japan is where is some of the snowiest parts in the whole world? Speaker 3 00:05:15 Oh, Lilly. Speaker 2 00:05:16 Yeah. Just because it's on the, it's on the Bering sea and the winds and something about the patterns actually I'm like Sapporo gets like as much snow as anywhere in the world. Anyway. So, and then, then you were in Shanghai also. How, how did living in Shanghai compare with living in Osaka and Chicago? Speaker 3 00:05:36 Oh, um, it was also very different and, um, Shanghai is a very busy city and, uh, uh, people are very active and, um, very clouded, but very active and very interesting city to live. And, um, I also love Chinese cuisine, so, uh, it was very good for me. Speaker 2 00:06:00 I had a chance to go to Shanghai once. I think it was about 15 years ago and I'm sure there's so much, there's been so much building and development that I'm sure it's all changed a lot since I was there. But I remember being surprised by the breakfast food options. You go out in the morning, there's an, all these street vendors selling all this wonderful breakfast food, right. Coming from America. I think of Chinese food as something to eat for dinner or maybe lunch. And so it was a really wonderful eye-opening experience. Did you, did you get to eat any of the breakfast foods or the streets? Speaker 3 00:06:36 Yeah, sure, sure. Yes. And, um, also the China is a very big country and a cuisine of each lesion is very diverse and very different. So the, uh, I just tried to enjoy as many kinds of Chinese cuisine as possible. Speaker 2 00:06:58 And how do you do with spicy food Speaker 3 00:07:00 Or? I love it. So I'm a big fan of a suture and, um, spicy Chinese food. Speaker 2 00:07:08 And did you have the Sichuan peppers? The pepper? Yes. Speaker 3 00:07:14 Uh, yes. Yes. I love it. I love it. Yeah, Speaker 2 00:07:17 It was really great. Speaker 3 00:07:19 Yeah. Some sometimes, uh, um, when I, um, eat spicy foods with other Chinese friends and, uh, some Chinese friends from, um, as a part of lesion, uh, which is not, um, uh, which does not eat a lot of spicy foods, um, uh, sometimes some Chinese friends cannot eat something which is too spicy. So, um, I just, um, habit instead of other Chinese friends, Speaker 2 00:07:49 You got the higher tolerance. Oh, Speaker 3 00:07:51 Yes, I think so. Speaker 2 00:07:54 Okay. And do you speak any Chinese? Speaker 3 00:07:57 Just a little bit? Um, yeah, the, um, I, I, uh, worked as a visiting attorney for the law firm in Shanghai. Um, however, um, um, the Chinese partners, um, expected me, uh, to speak in Japanese for Japanese clients, with my experience and knowledge of Japanese walls and, uh, Japanese languages. So, uh, Speaker 2 00:08:27 And then, and then when you were in Chicago in addition to studying law school, so they had law school at Northwestern, you also worked for a little while at Kirkland and Ellis. And then I think you said you worked, uh, for in-house with a, with a company. Speaker 3 00:08:41 Oh, yes, yes. Yeah. Um, after graduation, I worked as an in-house attorney for approximately 10 months at the us subsidiary of <inaudible> firms, key client. And, um, it was a holding company of all know somebody can south CDL is of the client. And, uh, because of the nature of the holding company, the legal department was very small, but barely, uh, strong. So the, the members of the legal department of that holding company, you were just two us lawyers and one paralegal. Speaker 2 00:09:19 Oh, wow. And so were you, were you functioning in English at that time or a mixture of English and Japanese? Did the lawyer speak Japanese? Speaker 3 00:09:29 No, just a little bit, but, uh, basically, um, they don't use Japanese, so the, we work, um, in English. Speaker 2 00:09:38 Oh. So that must've been helpful coming from the LLM program right into working and working in law in a, in a company in the U S with American lawyer. Speaker 3 00:09:47 Yes. Yes. It was Lilly precious experience for me. And, uh, it was great to have an opportunity to be in the client's shoes and as a new house. And also at the same time, um, I could work the lecturey closely with, to Delhi competent us lawyers, not for the ordinary, um, employees of the legal department. So it was very, um, very, uh, good opportunity for me. And, uh, also the, in that company group, um, each subsidiary actually had its own legal department. So the only, um, difficult issues that, um, legal department of each subsidiaries cannot handle, uh, consulted with us. Speaker 2 00:10:39 So they would kind of, they would kind of rise up. And when they, when they were sort of more complicated than they would come up to you guys. Speaker 3 00:10:47 Um, so yeah, it is just like, uh, uh, working with, uh, uh, lawyers at the law firm. Um, yeah, so the, it was very interesting for me. Speaker 2 00:10:58 And, and was there any, were there any sort of differences or things that surprised you about the way law was practiced by American lawyers or in a, in a United, in the U S context that that was very different than how you were used to practicing law in Japan? Or was it all very sort of seamless? Speaker 3 00:11:19 Hm. So I'm not, um, I don't think, um, uh, there is a huge difference, um, working as a lawyer. Yeah. But, um, uh, the, um, way, uh, the working hours for the lawyers, um, as a firms, uh, very different. So, uh, yeah. Uh, when I worked as a, um, visiting attorney as the law firm, um, yeah. Um, uh, when, uh, they invited me to have a drink after work and, um, so I expected to start drink at around 6:00 PM or 7:00 PM, something like that. But, uh, just along 3:00 PM, the partner just invited me, let's go out and have drink Speaker 2 00:12:20 3:00 PM. I thought you were going to say like 10:00 PM. Cause they were working so late in so many hours. Speaker 3 00:12:30 Yeah. Yeah. Uh, actually the, uh, they are very flexible, uh, when they have a busy cases. So they are working just like, I feel like they are working 24 7, but, uh, yeah, the, when, uh, they don't have, they don't have busy cases and, uh, they are very flexible, I think. Yeah. So the, this sometimes, um, they have the, um, some of a partner have a season ticket for the, uh, Chicago Cubs. So the, yeah. And the Chicago camp is Fe Cubs is famous for, um, having, uh, day games. Right. So the, in Japan, I was wondering, um, with many those day games who will attend, who will go to the boat ballpark on the weekday for the day game. But, uh, uh, one of our partner had a season ticket and, uh, when they are not so busy, uh, the, they are just going to the ballpark. And the secretary said, um, some of the partner is now there, um, at, uh, uh, no office of the Kirkland. It means it's, uh, uh, legally field was a dos office of Speaker 2 00:13:48 The north. Wow. Speaker 3 00:13:51 Uh, just, just as a joke, Speaker 2 00:13:54 But I mean, that's part of Chicago culture. I guess people do go, people will leave work and go for the day games. I've never been, and I've always wanted to go. I, you know, my, my corporate law professor in law school, uh, James Cox, he would always use the cut. When he talk about, um, the business judgment rule in corporate law. He would always use the example of day and night baseball. Did your, did your professors do that too? Speaker 3 00:14:21 Oh, no, but I know that, yes. Okay. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:14:26 And the idea that, that is, you know, management, can't be sued for making that that's a business judgment, you know, if you don't want to have night baseball, even if it's going to make you more money, you want to just have day baseball that you can do that Speaker 3 00:14:39 Anyway. Yeah. That's a caseload for the Chicago Cubs. Right, right. Speaker 2 00:14:43 Yeah, exactly. Now, speaking of sports, you're also, as I, as I mentioned earlier, you're, you're a football fan and American fan. Yes. And do you have a favorite team? Oh, Speaker 3 00:14:56 Yes. I I'm a big fan of the green bay Packers and I'm actually, I own a share of a park so that I'm an owner and a literary. It's my team. Wow. Speaker 2 00:15:09 Wow. That must feel really good. I, um, I, myself, I'm a fan of the Detroit lions and I don't think I should ever invest in a share of great lions because that will definitely lose me money. But anyway, so, so you were a green bay Packers fan, but living in Chicago, which is where the Chicago bears play. And those are huge rivals. I mean, those are two of the big NFL. What was that like? Speaker 3 00:15:39 Yeah. Um, um, it was fun actually. Um, um, every time, um, I, I met with people and, uh, talking about the football and, uh, what is your favorite team? Um, so that every time I told them, um, I'm a huge fan of green bay Packers and they say just how they're Speaker 2 00:16:04 In a friendly way. Speaker 3 00:16:06 Oh yeah. In a, in a friendly way. So that as a joke. So the, yeah, the, it was really a nice experience and, uh, still, um, also the, these are to big, like, um, big library teams, but we have a lot in common to talk about, Speaker 2 00:16:23 Right? Yeah. Both. Yeah. So whether cities with a live history and their football and their football teams, um, and I would think that being familiar with football would also be, uh, a big advantage and benefit in terms of communicating with American lawyers and American business people. Um, you know, I have a friend who never liked football, and I remember him telling me how, you know, when he got into the business world later, how uncomfortable he felt he felt because he, everybody would talk about football and he just, he couldn't participate in that. Is it wouldn't you feel like it's been helpful for you? Speaker 3 00:17:03 Yes. Yes. It was actually a really helpful for me. And, um, it was, um, it worked as a really good icebreaker to meet with people for the first time. And, um, actually the, um, on some occasions of the job interview when I was seeking for the internship position, so it worked, uh, Glade to talk about the football as a great icebreaker. So the, um, it make the atmosphere more friendly and, um, I could be, I could get more relaxed with that kind of topics. Speaker 2 00:17:45 So, yeah. Yeah. And how did you come to a football fan? Speaker 3 00:17:51 Oh, actually, um, I graduated Cal to university in Japan and, um, it is a, um, second vest university in Japan, but, uh, um, almost all sports teams are not competitive, but, um, the only Lilly, uh, competitive team was a football team. So the, it, it won the national championship, uh, when I was a university student. So I started to watch football. Speaker 2 00:18:25 So it killed the university. Are there a lot of students who became football fans? What'd you say? Speaker 3 00:18:31 I think so. Yes. Um, um, because, um, it was the only, only sports team. Uh, we, we are just, um, excitingly looting for, Speaker 2 00:18:44 Hmm. Yeah, I guess I could see that being a sort of a gateway. Um, so if, so, if you're a football fan, would you mind if I quiz you on a couple of football terms and see if you can explain them for our listeners? Speaker 3 00:18:56 Oh, sure. Thank you. This is, this is, Speaker 2 00:18:59 This is good legal English sorta home, because I think these things get these terms get used as, as metaphors all the time. Okay. The first term is quarterback Speaker 3 00:19:12 Cora bark. So, um, it's oh, it's, um, it's hard to explain, uh, yeah, Speaker 2 00:19:20 If you were, if it can be used by a lawyer, if an American lawyer uses the word quarterback, metaphorically, what are they, what are they talking about? Speaker 3 00:19:32 So the two command command, the team, um, just, just lead the team, uh, as a leader of the team and, um, just, um, get the snap and, uh, then, uh, decide whether to pass or land, uh, and, uh, just control the offense of the team. Speaker 2 00:19:54 So if you're, if you're quarterbacking the project, then, then you're like the leader making the decisions and you have the vision, I guess. Speaker 3 00:20:04 Yes. Yes, I think so. Yeah. That's a, yeah. A good metaphor. Speaker 2 00:20:09 Okay. Next phrase, huddle up. Speaker 3 00:20:13 Yeah, the huddle is, uh, the term to the teammate. Uh, just, uh, get in a circle and, uh, just, um, discussing briefly about, uh, um, about the, uh, next prey. Um, so the huddle up means just get lady, Speaker 2 00:20:36 We get ready and sort of get together and talk before we, before we do something. Okay. Oh, good. Okay. Next one, third and long. Speaker 3 00:20:48 Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So then, and, um, with long distance to go for the first down, um, so the, it means, uh, a difficult situation to overcome. Is that a way? Yeah. Speaker 2 00:21:09 Yeah. You're running out of time and running out of chances and you've got a big, big obstacle to overcome. I think that's a great way to put it. Okay. And the last one, a hail Mary <inaudible>. Speaker 3 00:21:21 Oh, yeah, of course. Yes. And, um, uh, you know, the Alan losers is great about grateful that Speaker 2 00:21:29 Rogers against the Detroit lions, at least and against other teams too, has grown a lot of hail Mary. So how would, how would you describe a hail Mary? Speaker 3 00:21:41 Oh, yeah, yeah, just one last shot. Um, uh, without, um, any time left and, uh, so making a huge challenge, uh, um, give a last trial or last shot. Speaker 2 00:21:59 Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty good. Okay. You passed the quiz, you pass the football helpful. I really, really appreciate it. Your explanations. Um, so, uh, let me ask you another question. How, how would you describe your legal practice these days? Speaker 3 00:22:16 Okay. So, um, um, I am a partner of a Diageo LPC, and, um, so Diageo PC is a full service commercial law firm, um, with 37 lawyers. And, uh, we cover virtually all sorts of commercial practice fields. And, um, also we have family LOLs, wills and estate practices. Um, but, uh, personally I am a partner in charge of cross border practices. So the mostly assisting Japanese companies doing business in foreign countries and also assisting foreign companies doing businesses in Japan. And, uh, we, um, assist our clients just like a general counsel on general corporate matters very broadly. So the, um, we have many, uh, diverse cases, um, all the time. So the, just for example, we schist Japanese clients in, uh, drafting and liberating, um, many sorts of commercial agreement with fallen counter parties. And, uh, we assist schist on A's and, uh, employment matters, um, trademark, another IP matters and, uh, also dispute resolution and litigation in foreign jurisdictions. Speaker 2 00:23:40 And are these, when you're doing this work, how much of you, how much of this work are you doing in English versus Japanese? Or is it just a big mix of the two? Speaker 3 00:23:50 Oh, actually it's a big mix, as you said. Um, yeah, so the, uh, when we assist Japanese clients, we assist them in Japanese, but, uh, uh, obviously, um, when they have any, um, issues relating to foreign countries and, uh, um, we need to, uh, take care of the laws of other countries or as a jurisdictions, uh, to assist, um, Japanese clients business in foreign jurisdictions. So the, I need to work with, uh, foreign lawyers a lot. So, uh, we, uh, mostly communicate with, uh, for lawyers in English. So, uh, yeah, that part, I always use the English. Speaker 2 00:24:37 And does that, is that lawyers from just English speaking countries or are you communicating in English with lawyers from countries where English is not even the first language as well? Speaker 3 00:24:48 Yeah, yeah, of course. And, uh, we, uh, we need to, um, work with, uh, lawyers in very, um, broad range of the areas and countries. Speaker 2 00:25:01 And that's generally done in English. Speaker 3 00:25:04 Yes. Yes. That's um, um, easiest, um, way of communication. Yeah. Only with Chinese lawyers or Taiwanese lawyers or Korean lawyers. Sometimes they are fluent in Japanese. So yes, sometimes we, uh, communicate in Japanese with those lawyers. Speaker 2 00:25:25 Oh, that's really interesting. Huh. So maybe is there any, um, is there any interest in, or people trying to learn legal Japanese? Just like people like to study legal English? Speaker 3 00:25:39 Yeah. Yes. And, um, some of the, uh, um, Chinese lawyers and the Korean lawyers, um, um, studies, um, Japanese lows in Japan, right? Speaker 2 00:25:52 Yeah. There's a lot of Google, a lot of exchange and students traveling from China to Japan and Chimp, Japan to China to study in the universities. Speaker 3 00:26:00 Um, of course, uh, yeah, because, um, there are so many Japanese companies, uh, doing businesses in China or in Korea, so they have a lot of Japanese legal practices. Speaker 2 00:26:14 And, and does this connect with your role with the Osaka bar association? Speaker 3 00:26:19 Oh, yes. Uh, the, um, uh, as a, as a child, the international, um, committee, um, the, um, I, I have been, um, a law to, um, connect connect with, uh, bar associations in other foreign jurisdictions. And, uh, we have assisted to, uh, make the friendship agreement, uh, between Osaka bar associations and, uh, as a chic spa associations, Speaker 2 00:26:57 Personal affiliations in other countries. Speaker 3 00:26:59 Yes. Um, the eras, uh, California, uh, um, uh, California lawyers associations in us and, um, also the, um, Hong Kong, uh, law society of Hong Kong and, uh, shanshan China association and a Taiwanese association and the law society of Singapore and, uh, also the Barcelona parcels shape. Speaker 2 00:27:30 Oh, wow. That is very cross border. And so what happens when you have a, uh, like a friendship agreement or relationship between bar associations? How does that, how does that play out or what, how does that manifest? Speaker 3 00:27:44 Oh, yes. The, um, we, we just try to exchange information and, uh, sometimes we have, uh, we hold a joint seminars and, uh, sometimes, um, they have, uh, uh, um, annual conference, for example, the, uh, California lawyers association is a pretty big association and they have, uh, uh, huge gasoline of the law, uh, uh, of the annual conferences so that we are invited to join those kinds of event. And, um, that's those kinds of events. We hold the joint seminars and joint receptions and something like that. And, um, sometimes we have some inquiries, uh, for some legal matters. Um, what other countries will take care of one legal issue? Uh, we just, uh, uh, send the questionnaire to as, uh, associations about their practices in their jurisdictions. Speaker 2 00:28:55 Oh yeah. I can see how that would be really helpful because you have clients doing business in each other's jurisdictions than in that kind of an inquiry and can provide a lot of perspective. Speaker 3 00:29:07 Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, that's, uh, um, just as a, um, oh, psychopath association, so that it's, uh, less, uh, uh, um, uh, broad perspective, not, uh, not an issue for a single cases. Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, uh, for, for my practice, um, it also, um, was, uh, really helpful. Um, so I get to know many lawyers through those kinds of, um, activities. So the, um, those kinds of individual connections, um, worked barely well for my practices. Also sometimes we need to ask for some legal issues, um, for my clients. Speaker 2 00:29:53 Yeah. And that's how in fact that's how I, um, I was introduced to you by Gary, uh, Jose American lawyer in, in Osaka. Speaker 3 00:30:04 Yes. Interestingly. Yes. Speaker 2 00:30:06 So that's exactly the kinds of, or one of the kinds of connections, I guess, that gets formed by this. Speaker 3 00:30:11 Yeah. He's a good friend of mine. Speaker 2 00:30:13 Yeah. Really, really nice guy. Um, and D when you were, when you were a child, did you know that you wanted to be a lawyer or that you wanted to work in some sort of international or cross border type of, of situation? Or is that something you sort of figured out or thought about later? Or it just happened? Speaker 3 00:30:33 Yeah, the, in my childhood, I never, um, sought to be an international lawyers. Yeah. But, um, um, I love to travel and, uh, I loved to, um, experience, uh, to have some cross cultural experiences. And, um, in my childhood, I was a member of the, um, chorus group, choir, chorus group. And, um, um, I I'm originally from Kobe and Kobe city has a lot of sister cities in the world. And, um, Chateau is while the sister city, so that I traveled to Chateau to have a, um, to hold some ceremony, um, to sing at the ceremony. Uh, so the, um, I traveled to, um, to shuttle us and also Tianjin China, and also went to the, uh, um, legal, uh, it's a Latvian Republic. It's a Baltic, uh, countries. Speaker 2 00:31:49 Oh, wow. And how old were you around this time? Speaker 3 00:31:52 Um, I was, um, uh, in the junior high school. Speaker 2 00:31:56 Wow. Yes. So that, that must have had a big impression on you. Speaker 3 00:32:00 Yes. Yes. It was really fun. And, um, traveling abroad, um, as a, uh, friendly mission. Uh, so the, it was really fun to be a part of that kind of mission and the just traveling many countries was very interesting. Speaker 2 00:32:20 And how was your English at that time? Speaker 3 00:32:22 Oh, the, just like nothing, uh, just a little bit. Uh, but, uh, um, still, um, I had some, um, challenges to speak with, um, some strangers in other countries. And, um, just, just ask for the, uh, ask to find the shop or something like that. Um, it was just fun to, uh, to find that I can communicate in some way to using, uh, to use English. Um, so, uh, it was very, uh, good experience for me. Speaker 2 00:33:02 Yeah. I, I have a similar experience just when you can use another language and in that, and actually do something it's very motivating and it really, really, it builds your confidence a lot. So Speaker 3 00:33:15 That's true. Speaker 2 00:33:17 So, and, and now that you're a lawyer, what, what do you like about being a lawyer? Okay. Speaker 3 00:33:23 Yes. Um, yes. And, um, I, I like, um, um, the legal practices is very diverse and, um, I learn a lot about many, uh, fields of, uh, businesses. So the, um, we have many clients, uh, from many business sectors. So the, um, it is very fun to, uh, learn something about, uh, new businesses. And, um, so sometimes when we do due diligence, uh, we visit, uh, factories and as companies, um, that is, that is very fun part of our job. Speaker 2 00:34:09 It's like going on field trips a lot. Oh, yes. Yes. So when you get to go on a field trip and that's always a fun, you know, a fun way to learn. Yeah. That is a great thing about being a lawyer, just getting the different perspectives on every and all these different businesses and the people who come to. Speaker 3 00:34:25 Yes. Yes. And I'm also as an international lawyer than I really like to, uh, work with, uh, lawyers from other jurisdictions. So, um, it is really fun to work on some project with like-minded lawyers in as a country. Speaker 2 00:34:44 Yeah. I agree with you. I think that's, that's, that's why I went into teaching and working with international students because I just, I always, ever since I went to Japan and went to other countries, I had to be able to keep doing that. Um, and then I have one last question for you, which is what is some advice that, uh, someone has given you that you appreciate or advice that you like to give to others, young lawyers, or maybe people who are interested in an international across border legal practice? Speaker 3 00:35:19 Yes. Um, my advice to young lawyers who will study in us or other countries, um, is, um, to embrace and enjoy any kind of opportunities, um, in two meanings. Um, in the first sense I like to share my thought, um, that, um, any failure is a great opportunity to learn English, so we should not be afraid of failure. So let me explain my experience. Um, the, at the law school, when a professor asked a question in the classroom, um, in some cases I knew what to answer in my head, but it took time to construct good English sentences in my head. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. By the time I felt confident enough to answer it in English. The other native students had already lays the hand and answer the questions so that I lost opportunities to raise my hand. So yeah, I think many, many interns international students will have similar experiences. Speaker 3 00:36:39 So, um, I just, um, determined that I would lays my hand before I came up with perfect English sentences, as long as I had some ideas to answer in my mind. So the, at first it was very scaly to do so the lasing, my hand, without fully prepared in English sentences. Yeah. But, um, I, I just decided to do so. And, um, in some cases it worked somehow well, but in other cases I failed, uh, the, sometimes I failed by doing so, uh, I, I could not find a good expression in English and, uh, I felt I could explain less than half what I wanted to say in my head. And then the worst situation, I was just stuck in the middle of explaining my salt. So the, it was very embarrassing and frustrating to fail in the class classroom in front of all students, all classmates. And that was classes, it's like a hundred people sometimes, right? Oh, yes, yes, yeah, yeah, it was so, but, uh, because of that kind of, uh, embarrassment and frustration later, I could not help pondering what I should upset in that kind of situation. Um, and that, that embarrassment, uh, just helped me to memorize such, um, English expressions that I failed to come up with. Um, so the, it, it was hard to forget because of that experience. Yes. I can see that. So yeah, Speaker 2 00:38:35 The embarrassing experiences are the ones that help you remember that you're right. That's a great lesson. Yeah. Speaker 3 00:38:41 Yes. So, yeah. And, um, also later it became a good ex good episode to look back and laugh with friends. Speaker 2 00:38:51 Yes, that's true. Yes. I agree with that. I have, I have my own stories of embarrassment from law school, which I won't share here, but then, but then they turn into good stories. So, Speaker 3 00:39:02 Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. So we, we all feel barely Ember and blast in those kinds of situations. But, uh, I think, uh, I think, uh, we should have a mindset to embrace and enjoy even such failures when we learn English. And, um, especially, um, as a lawyer in our professional life, we are very careful not to make mistakes since we are responsible for clients. On the other hand at school, we are just less possible for ourselves so that we can, we can make mistakes. So it's not the end of the world. So the, we think we have the luxury to fail, uh, freely at school. So Speaker 2 00:39:54 That is great advice for LLM students or any other students going to study abroad. Speaker 3 00:40:00 Yeah. Right. Yeah. And also the, in the second, uh, meaning, um, in addition to a study at school, uh, we should be very active and enjoy any sort of opportunity in all our social life in foreign countries too. So the just know that we need to study very hard, but, uh, when, um, when we, uh, uh, living in other countries, we should not miss a precious opportunity to learn about social life, including the culture, music, sports foods, and everything. I think. So Speaker 2 00:40:41 It's a unique opportunity really. Speaker 3 00:40:43 Uh, yeah. And, uh, it would help us a bit to understand what us client would think in some kinds of situations. And also it would help to get along with people from other cultural backgrounds. Speaker 2 00:40:59 Yeah. It's really, it's, it's a form of studying and learning. That's just as important as what's going on in the books. So the more experiences you have, the more it creates opportunities to talk and connect with other people, it sounds like. Speaker 3 00:41:13 Yes. Yes. I do think so. Yeah. So the, yeah. Speaker 2 00:41:18 Oh, well, thank you. That, that is really, um, helpful and I think useful perspective and advice for, for everybody and especially for any future LLM students out there. Um, so, so Casa two, I wanna, I want to thank you so much for taking the time to join me today. This is, this has been a really unique, um, uh, episode. Um, and it's so great to hear the perspectives of somebody who's practicing in another country right now. Um, we're gonna, uh, for our listeners, we're going to include any relevant links from this episode in the show notes. Um, and, uh, I want to remind listeners, you can subscribe to us law Central's podcast on apple, Stitcher, Spotify, Himalaya, or wherever you get your podcasts. Uh, and you can also listen to all episodes on us law, essential.com. Um, if you have any questions, comments, reactions, ideas, or are you really like the show? And you want to let you want to let, um, cause Tono or you want to let me or Dan know, we always love hearing from our listeners, uh, and you can always contact us through the U S law centrals.com website or by [email protected] And you can also find us law centrals on LinkedIn and Facebook. Um, so thank you again, Casa tau. It was a real pleasure to have you, okay. Speaker 3 00:42:39 Thank you so much for giving me this great opportunity to be a part of your grade program. So it was a great honor and great fan for me. Speaker 2 00:42:49 Okay. And everybody out there, thanks for listening to us law, essential law and language podcast, and stay essential.

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