Speaker 0 00:00:00 Because the problem is not what's written, the problem is what's not written. And it's, you have to realize a translator is a writer, a transmitter of the ideas,
Speaker 1 00:00:15 Oh, I'm threaten.
Speaker 2 00:00:21 Welcome to the US Los Angeles's Law and Language Podcast, the legal English podcast for non-native English speakers that helps you improve your English listening, improve your legal English vocabulary, and build your knowledge of American legal culture. Hi, this is Daniel. And before we begin today's episode, I wanna remind you that US Law Centrals offers online courses in legal, English and online courses in US law. Our courses are designed for international attorneys, students, translators, and bar candidates. If you have any questions, please contact Daniel
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[email protected] and join us on Facebook and LinkedIn. Welcome to the US Law Centrals Law and Language Podcast. I'm your host, Daniel Edelson, and today we continue our series of interviews with multilingual legal professionals. And today we have as our guest Steven Rifkin. Steven grew up in Los Angeles and the United States. He has a French mother and an American father. He majored in Russian studies and he earned his MBA at Lester University in the uk. Currently, he lives in Israel where he's been living for more than 30 years, where he is an English lecturer at Broad College of Engineering, and he is a freelance translator. Stephen, welcome to the show.
Speaker 0 00:02:06 Welcome. Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 2 00:02:09 We usually start off by asking people how many different languages they speak. So how many languages do you speak?
Speaker 0 00:02:18 I translate from French, Hebrew, Russian, to English. Oh, wow. I do, did study some Italian, but I won't make any pretensions of that. I speak French and I speak French and Hebrew fluently or near fluently. Uh, I read Russian. I can't say I really speak it except very minimal conversation. And, um, I keep, I keep my English as much as possible, <laugh> from, from it, from from, for, from second language interference.
Speaker 2 00:02:52 Very good. And how many different countries have you lived in?
Speaker 0 00:02:57 I lived in the United States, France, and Israel. My joke to my mother was, is I could live in three countries and not fully belong to any of them <laugh>. But today Israel is my home. United States. I visit you. Israel is a place that no one is neutral. You love it or you hate it. Uh, in my case, I've raised a family here and I would never consider living anywhere else.
Speaker 2 00:03:20 Great. Actually, and I think I left out the fact that you, you, you've, you've taught French before as well, haven't you?
Speaker 0 00:03:27 Yeah, I taught a, I taught a little, little bit of French, um, but that was a, a long time ago. I've been an English teacher essentially for some 30, almost 30 years. I've an English teacher here.
Speaker 2 00:03:39 I introduced you as a, as a, as a legal professional. And you, you did attend law school, but then you, the what, what happened?
Speaker 0 00:03:53 Um, I, I worked a law office before I attended law school. I mean, I had some idea what I was getting into, but then I, I went to law. I went to the University of Oregon, 1985 pops in my mind as the year. Um, and I really love the law. Even I even took a course a year and a half ago of a real course, and I really enjoy the law, but I don't, I realize it didn't want to practice law and that, and, and I realized that after three days, so I finished my first year with a 2.0003 average. I was not on probation <laugh>. Um, but as a translator, that has given me a, a very key tool because I understand what I'm translating. I understand law school does not teach you the law. It teaches the logic of the law. If you understand the logic, then you can find the law. The law is written. And I think that's what law school, even one year of law school teaching is how the law works, not the actual law.
Speaker 2 00:04:50 Very interesting. And I think, um, something that kind of comes through from your, from your, from your profile and from some of our earlier discussion, you, you have a love for language. Is that accurate?
Speaker 0 00:05:05 Yeah. Everybody's given a certain gift or a certain talent that, that, that comes easy. Uh, we don't always know what to do with it. And for years I thought languages was pretty useless as, as a, as a gift. But as I was telling students, everybody finds something that they appreciate the aesthetics. A carpenter can appreciate the aesthetics of a wooden chair, that to most people's a functional item. I love beautiful language and I love when people express themselves and, and expressing English because it's such a, a, a, a almost a violent marriages of various languages. It's so hard to express in an aesthetic way. It's functional, but it doesn't sound good. And when you read Orwell or, or, or, or good English writing, I'm impressed because I know how hard it's to polish. English is not anywhere as beautiful in itself as Italian or French or any of those type languages.
Speaker 2 00:06:05 That's a really interesting observation, and maybe that's why, uh, Americans are always, uh, so enamored when we hear someone speak French or Italian. Um, but you studied, you studied Russian, uh, as, as an undergraduate. Was there any particular attraction to, to Russian?
Speaker 0 00:06:26 Uh, well my grandmother came from a, from what was Poland is now Russian and actually gave a lecture at, at the same building where she went to high school. That was a very weird event, but that, that's how it worked out. Uh, I choose Russian because it was a challenge I think that I, I enjoyed, I enjoyed the challenge of of, of the Russian language. Um, it's a very, it has a completely different Slavic languages approach, ideas in a very different way. Um, and I think you sort of have to be Russian to really express yourself well in Russian cuz it's so different from, uh, from nons slavi languages. But it, it, it, it's, it just shows how many, how many different ways there are to express an idea.
Speaker 2 00:07:15 Can you give a, can you give an example of something that you observed in Russian?
Speaker 0 00:07:19 Certainly in English, English follows a German tendency, which is a word order language, where the function of a word is reflected in its location, the sentence the dog chases. The cat is the, the word before the verb is the subject. And the word after the verb is the object. Russian, um, is a case language where the function of the word is reflected by an ending on the noun. And the word order is almost entirely random. And punctuation rules are very flexible. So dust eski can have a page and a half sentence, and it's, you have these parts, causal descriptions of elements and you have to sort of understand the grammar of it. It's, it's, it's, if you will, translating Russian is working with a jigsaw puzzle because you have to, when you do it to English, you have to put it in a, in a very fixed order where the order in Russian is very stylistic. Um, and it all makes sense, but you have, you have to know how you have to look at the endings. So it's very, very, as I say, it's very different because the subject can be at the end and it'll be perfectly clear grammatically.
Speaker 2 00:08:33 Oh wow. I think for people who, who teach English and who teach legal, legal English, knowing what you know is must be a great insight because you can look at what your students are writing and understand, okay, this is what they're trying to do and I understand what they want to accomplish with this sentence. But, uh, maybe this doesn't quite work in English.
Speaker 0 00:09:00 I I, you can write, I can recognize the ethnic background of my students by their mistakes. I know the Arab Arab language mistakes, I know the Russian language mistakes, they're very predictable. Russians don't have articles. No. So they have no idea where to put the articles quite random. Whereas where, where an Arabic sentence is an idea, not necessarily grammatical function. So they have no problem, uh, what we would call a run on sentence, because to them, as long as it's the same idea, you can connect, you can keep on going on and on, it's, it's not that something is wrong, it's just a very different approach to, to expression.
Speaker 2 00:09:40 Very interesting. And I'm, I'm sure a lot of people who are listening can absolutely identify with what you're saying on a i I guess I'll say on both sides of the classroom. Yeah, absolutely. On, on both, on both sides of the classroom. And it's, and probably, I, I, I think um, when we, when we study language, maybe it makes us a little bit more sensitive to other people who are trying to communicate in, in our first language.
Speaker 0 00:10:16 Oh yes, I, I live in Hebrew and I make mistakes. Um, certain mistakes I repeat all the time. And I always, I might tend to view about speech, not about writing, about speech is it's the bathroom test. If they understand that you wanna find a bathroom, it's fine. Grammar and vocabulary are secondary issues. Um, and you know, and I will, being a foreigner and having an accent and making mistakes even after 30 years, and my mother was the same way. And every generation has changed country. So every gone through it, you learn to laugh at yourself and others, but not, not to ride them cuz they make mistakes. They're not stupid, they're just make, they're just there. There's some language issues here, which is an essential difference.
Speaker 2 00:11:05 A good, a good deal of your work is right now in, in legal translation. Correct. Is that, is that accurate? Yeah. Can you tell me, uh, for example, what what type of legal translation you do?
Speaker 0 00:11:16 Yeah. Um, legal translation sort of ranges from the normal to the absurd normal would be lease contracts. There are a lot of, there are a lot of international companies in Israel that are, have leasing agreements and these are semi standard documents. There are, they tend to be, um, some of tend to be taken from the internet and, and and the like, but they're fairly standard documents, occasional divorce documents, which I enjoy a lot because there's always a good story behind a divorce. You know, I'm sorry, the law contracts are stories.
Speaker 2 00:11:49 Do you translate legal cases
Speaker 0 00:11:51 And sort of, I I won't do Supreme Court decisions cuz Supreme Court, uh, someone did a study that in 1948 the average Supreme Court decision was five pages long. And in 2012 it was 250 pages long. Um, this is the Israeli Supreme Court Justice, the Israeli Supreme Court, and they throw an AMA Bible and everything else. And unless you know all that language, you can't touch it. I won't do Supreme Court to, but I will do appeal, appeal. Court decisions are very sort of to the point and, and the like. Oh, just to, just to clarify, um, when you said they, they put an ama do you mean that literally, literally ama is Latin in Hebrew? It's the same sort of, it's on the same sort of register as Latin. So there will be whole quotations in Aramaic. Uh, and I'm okay with it, but when I get too much, they will quote parts of the Bible, which are not available, uh, in, in his English translation that I don't really understand what's being done.
Speaker 0 00:12:47 Uh, they will often begin with things like, um, I was walking in the garden considering whether there was just to, and and they'll go on for a page just talking about their thoughts as they're walking in the garden. And, and it's, as I said, I don't do those anymore cuz I'm not good at, I don't have the knowledge, but the standard court decisions are very, very to the point. I think any us lawyer would understand the, the appeals judge or the, or the, or the district judge would deals with facts. And, and on that level and the us the Israeli system is much closer to the US system and the British system in many ways. In many ways, not always. Um, the absurd of course is ID documents cuz when people car in places like Cyprus, they need documents to ID them. So they include things like, uh, utility bills.
Speaker 0 00:13:40 Um, the craziest one is international driver's license, which are already in English. Don't ask me why, but I'm supposed to do those two, uh, over and over. Um, I mean, you, you, I just don't, I don't understand half what, what they really are looking for. So a lot of ID documents, there are cases where people need, uh, copies of laws because many of the laws in Israel have been translated unofficially into English. But when you get into the regulations, uh, they're not, and so they have, uh, accompany company, an eex export import company may need to have to see the exact regulations on a given product or a different law change. Um, you know, that sort of is the, you know, the, the range of legal documents that come in. And that's the joy of translation. You never really quite know what's coming in. And, uh, it's close, it's close enough to American law where you really, it it's sort of based on the same logic. I mean the, the, the, the, even the order of sections where presentation of facts, um, conclusions and, and legal is more or less the order. An American lawyer would have no issue, no problem understanding the, the, the, the format of the, of, of Israeli law.
Speaker 2 00:15:02 I see. But you're, you're working not just with the US law and Israeli law, you're also working, I guess with, um, European law. Yes. Um, and um, are you also working with, um, uh, Russian law or mainly European?
Speaker 0 00:15:19 The issue is not who, where the law comes from. It's the, it's much more an issue of who's going to read it.
Speaker 2 00:15:26 Oh.
Speaker 0 00:15:26 And, and that's where the comes in. Let's just take for example, the Israeli Supreme Court. Unlike the US Supreme Court has a mechanism called Magos, which is a request for justice, which says that any Israeli resident, even I think citizens and Austin citizens may go directly to the Supreme Court if they believe that he, his or her rights are, are in, are in danger. And the Supreme Court must respond. It's, it's, it's a, it's a really weird concept by US law, but basically says this is not a, this is not a criminal. I'm saying if someone's about to, to destroy your house, you, you, you just have to say that I need an immediate, which would, in the United States, you would go for a stay, uh, uh, some type of a stay in Israel, people go to, they go to the special, and the Supreme Court actually must listen to it. Sometimes it's one judge, three judges, five judges, they have various, depending on the level of the case, but you've got Palestinian prisoners going to, I mean, it's, it's, it's a attempt to guarantee just that someone is entitled to justice. And if it's immediate, they get immediate one day, two days,
Speaker 2 00:16:38 Really. So anyone could appear, well not appeal, but anyone can bring this, um, this, uh, need for justice. Is it by gods,
Speaker 0 00:16:47 You said be guts. Yeah, it's a yeah.
Speaker 2 00:16:51 But by guys guys's said, aesthetic means justice and Hebrew. Right? Okay. Yeah, you can bring your, you can bring your appeal or your, um, your BAAs for aesthetic, for your, for justice directly to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court must hear you
Speaker 0 00:17:04 Must hear you. And you can ignore all, all intermediate levels, which, which again, alien to us, concepts of the Supreme Court deciding what its wants or not. Another, another co what I just learned in a fascinating American Translation Association seminar was, is that, uh, civil law has a completely different approach to contracts. And I, and I was, I, I gained an appreciation because US law is basically run by U c c assumptions plus whatever judges, whatever the lawyers throw in there. I mean, whatever the, they're allowed to throw in there, eliminate where you, where civil law, which is Europe and Europe and Russia, and most of the world, all the clauses, the contract are in the, are in the national law. All the, all, all the, the lawyer does is basically says we're choosing this option and that option. So if you're, if you're getting a commercial lease, basically it will follow the, the coded, the coded or the coded law.
Speaker 0 00:18:06 Unless someone says, um, otherwise, you know, if you don't have a, if you do not have an expiration date on your, on your contract, it automatically renews itself. Okay. That's, that's the default is automatic renewal unless you choose to actually limit its length, which is really interesting. Uh, the Russians have something called arbitrage. Again, not a, you'd have to have something that has to be explained, which is, which is a, a, um, commercial court, in other words, where US judges will deal, and even us juries, most pe securely will deal with commercial cases. They don't even understand what's going on. Uh, I'm sorry. At least they used to, I don't know if they still do. Uh, the, in, in the, in the civil civil system, there are special courts that only deal with commercial. In other words, these judges are theoretically much more knowledgeable of commercial law and how it works.
Speaker 0 00:19:06 Um, so you, you have to sort of sometimes go explain different concepts. And if I'm translating for an agency in New York, and I know it's going to the United States, I have to realize they may not know what this is. So I have to put in square brackets some hint, uh, what it actually it is. And if I'm dealing with, for example, in civil law, you don't have to have consideration. It's rather weird. But there's certain cases you can be, you can not have to have consideration. And you have that new in, in Louisiana, but nobody knows Louisiana law, so it's not terribly relevant. So they have, you have to say, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a, uh, it's, it's a contract without consideration, which is mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, which is a contradiction to term by US law. Um, so it's interesting cuz you have to re, you have to think, if I'm going to Europe, what will they understand? If I'm going to United States, I don't always know, but the person, or I know the person ordering it, so I need to make some assumptions that they probably won't understand really what's going on here. If it's important. Again, if it's not important, I don't let, let, let figure it out.
Speaker 2 00:20:17 It's a, it's an important point. So when you, you, you have to know your audience in order to translate effectively because you can't always assume that people will understand, uh, the terms that the other side is using.
Speaker 0 00:20:32 Definitely. Or, or even the whole approach. They won't even, they won't even understand why. How can you have a contract without consideration? That's what your first year students learned immediately under civil law, you can, if, if you pro, if you promise your, your, your children a gift, uh, for their, for their birthday, theoretically it's a contract. It's a rather peculiar situation. It their, their conditions for it. Were here, were here. It's a, it's an empty promise. They didn't do anything Right, right.
Speaker 2 00:21:02 Under US law. Yeah. That would be a promise. Without consideration, it would just be a, would just be words. Yeah. Um, one trend, certainly in, in the US and the UK is this idea of, of plain English where, um, people try to avoid overly technical legal terms and Right. In a way that people would understand is, is plain English an important part of your work?
Speaker 0 00:21:31 Yes. Because I don't know who's gonna be reading it. You, you, a lawyer in the states knows that, that this document's going to court or this document is a lease that may be going to a, um, to a, to a regular person. Another, the, the lawyer knows who the reader is. And if we have, for example, someone whose education is low, the lawyer can sit with the person in theoretical and should explain what, what's in this lease or what's in this contract. I write, I translate often for agencies and I have no idea who's, who's actually gonna read this. I, I don't know whether it's going to court or not. I also, my father was a journalist and as such, he, he got into my mind, never used three words when one word was, was sufficient. It's, it's a journalist, it's foul up my academic training, but is major communicative writer.
Speaker 0 00:22:24 And I like playing English. I know Adams and those people, I've studied them and I, and I agree with it. So for example, in Israel and a lot of other languages, they really love fancy constructions like, uh, will be allowed to, or the equivalent of will be allowed to. It's may I, I don't have to put, if I write, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, um, the, the tenant will be allowed to pay the rent on, you know, earlier come up may. We're not, we're not going to, there's no reason for this will be allowed to, you know, undertakes to come. I hate the word undertakes reminds me of death. Um, you know, must or or, or shall if you, if you know how the word shall, I like the word shall, but you have to know how to use it again, must is also acceptable.
Speaker 0 00:23:15 I, I know. In other words, the u the proper use of of, of prepositions, uh, avoiding double the, the doublets and, and triplets when they have no, and when they add nothing. The whole process of translation for me involves I know what should be in this contract. I read what is there and then I put it how, how, how it should be written in English. And I often ignore the awful legal leagues that, that the person wrote it. Which is probably if it true of in some English contracts too. I, I heard, I heard the contract to buy Twitter was simply awful. It was, it was written by one of the major forms. And the English was, was, was from straight out of Dickens. Um,
Speaker 2 00:23:56 <laugh>, they might have been using a, a template, um, I probably should have asked you this earlier. Are, are you usually translating into English or
Speaker 0 00:24:06 From English? I've only translated English. The only, the only, let's be fair, uh, there are places in Eastern Europe where you have non-native speakers translating into English. The problem is, is there are not enough Czechs check speakers and Hungarian and those people and there and I, and they teach them English. And I know people who, who I know people who teach the, their law students to translate into English. I don't think anybody, I think you have to be a na native speaker to translate into that language because you have the ear for the written language. I'm not taking the speak, you know what's right. And you know it from many years of hearing and right in learning and, and the elements. So I only translate into English. I have no problem with uk. But, um, only, only it's my opinion that, that with very few exceptions, you must, you should translate into your na into your native language.
Speaker 2 00:24:59 You've certainly benefited from having, um, legal education for your own translation work. What would be, or what would be your suggestions or observations in connection with the idea of having some sort of legal education in connection with translation?
Speaker 0 00:25:15 Um, some of the most successful translators are lawyers. Either people who finish law school, some of them practice for a certain period of time. Some of them still practice, but because they have a huge advantage, first of all, they're able to, the customer says they're a lawyer. It obviously gives them a huge credibility. Um, if you, if you are, if you pass the bar pass law school, you have that, you have an advantage over all the amateurs out there. Uh, it also allows you to really understand how it, how what's really going on here. Because the problem is not what's written. The problem is what's not written. And it's, you have to realize a translator is a writer, a transmitter of the ideas. And if it, if you are looking at a contract and there is no, um, there's certain guarantees there that, that are un assumed to be there. And only if you study law, you understood what is assumed to be there that nobody's actually written down or, or why in the hell do they add that? Well, there's a reason why what that sentence means. It's not an accidental element.
Speaker 2 00:26:32 If someone were, were, were trying to become a translator, what, what advice would you give in terms of the process of translating legal documents?
Speaker 0 00:26:41 The process, I would say is mostly, most court related documents follow a certain format. If it's a decision, it would be statement of facts. And, you know, there's a certain order know what to expect in each. In other words, you have to come in there, this is what I expect to see. Interesting. In other words, this is sort of a little different, or this is more or less what I expected. And then as you read the section, you think, okay, now I need to say using say the same thing, but using words that an English or an American atter, uh, illegal person would, would do it. Because the na because every language has its own version of legalese and literal translation of, of law documents. My wife does. Medical translation that's even worse is a disaster. It, it, um, it, it's, it shows you don't really understand what you're doing. Uh, if if, if you're, if you're checking the dictionary, everything, then you don't understand what you're doing.
Speaker 2 00:27:46 One other topic I wanted to think, I wanted to ask you about, and this sort of ties into a little knowledge being a different vaping, a dangerous thing. Um, you mentioned earlier this, this, this Russian word, I think it was arbitrage or something along those lines, which is a word that I, I sort of, kind of think that I kind of sorta know, but I have a funny feeling. It means something completely different from what I think it means. Um, and does this, does this happen a lot where you have um, these types of, um, uh, false, false cognates?
Speaker 0 00:28:18 Yeah, it's one of the things, you have to be very careful. You have to, there's this little red light in your brain which goes off that, that maybe I'm missing something here. And it's very easy to ignore them. Ignore it because your deadlines and you, and you have to get things done. And, but for the most part, if you have a doubt there's a reason for it, double check it. Uh, people pay you good rates cuz you, you're not 95% sure you're a hundred percent sure you did everything you could to be a hundred percent sure. Cuz that often, sometimes you cannot be, um, so you don't, if you're dealing with, don't assume that the same root in French and English are gonna be the same. I can give interesting example the some in close panel, P e n a l e, which to American would sound like a penal clause, which is actually a liquidation clause. Okay. Which is really nothing to do with, I guess it's penalty. Oh,
Speaker 2 00:29:18 Oh, I, i see now, now you see now, now that gears are turning cuz we learn that liquidations, that, you know, liquidation, a liquidated damages clause cannot be a penalty. And now you're saying it's, it, it's called what? Enclosure.
Speaker 0 00:29:33 En close. Penal. Penal is pen.
Speaker 2 00:29:37 Yeah. Okay, well I can guarantee that I should not be translating a document that has that phrase in it. Cause I would, I I I would mess
Speaker 0 00:29:45 That up there. There's a, there's a word called ul, which to an again, in English you think of, of licensing, it actually means firing. It's, it's okay. And there are all these things of, of a class more, which is dismissal. You know, you think of class, you know, so when you find yourself in those situations and something doesn't make sense for whatever reason, double check. And there are places you can double check and, you know, but your intuition tells you that this is not what I really think it is. That's, that's why I I I I find you have to know what's there because if it's not there, then you better check the language because it should be there. I mean, no proper lawyer would, would write something without mentioning this little element. You know, it should be there. And what I'm writing is not going against what my, my knowledge. Now obviously sometimes each contract is a historian itself, but you, you need to feel very confident that, that you really checked it out. And, and I think that's part of why you should not have people who don't have law background, uh, do translation. Cuz they don't, they don't even know what they don't know. And that's the, that's the, that's a very serious danger. It's, it's okay not to know, be a hundred percent sure, but you should be really aware that, okay, I really need to check on this.
Speaker 2 00:31:15 Yeah, that's, it's, it's, it is just a, a really interesting observation that there's, there's sort of the, the assumptions that people write when they write the document, knowing the people who will read it. And then there's the stuff that has to be for people who weren't there when it was written and without any kind of context or background. It becomes, I guess it becomes kind of challenging.
Speaker 0 00:31:37 Yeah, I, I call it interesting. I mean, put this, I I find it's like, it's like any job. You, you have to put the time and the effort. And if you hate it, it's a, it's a burden. And if you enjoy it, it's uh, it's an intellectual pleasure. In other words, there's a, there is a satisfaction that a writer of a legal document gets when you put together a nice document. I, I, I mean, I'm not an attorney so I don't know how, how attorneys feels, but I, as a translator, when I, before I do send and I read it out and I read and say, this sounds good. That gives me a pleasure. And I, and I, and I think that of why, why do you care enough to, to double check and reread it and, and, and, and go through all the QA process? It's because you want for your own sake, not even for the customer's sake. They probably won't know the difference. But you want for your own sake to produce a good document. However you define a good document.
Speaker 2 00:32:34 I think your, your your, your passion and your love for this really shines through for people who are, who are studying another language. Maybe not for purposes of trying to be a translator, but just, just to learn another language. Do, do you have, do you have advice for them?
Speaker 0 00:32:48 Yeah. Become a four year old. Go out there, say it, say it any way you can. Anybody laughs with you like a child, you laugh with them, learn your lesson. Go on, accept the fact you'll never reach perfection. It, it never will happen. But the more languages you speak, the more people you reach in the world, the more people you can communicate, the more you can understand how they think. Cuz language also reflects the way we think. And, and you go around the world and you wanna communicate with people. It's, it's through their language. And even if you don't, even if you make grammar mistakes and your vocabulary is lousy, it doesn't really make a difference. The fact is you are respecting them by trying, by doing your best in their language. They'll respect you. And it opens up, it opens up the world. It it enriches the lang it enriches your language, enriches your experience. I, I think, but the key for adults is you have to go back to being four years old and just letting it out any way it comes out and improves with time. It, it language improves with time. There's no arguing about it. But you never reach perfection. I mean, I, I, I have enough fam immigrants in my family that you never reach perfection in your, in your adopted language or foreign language. Not relevant.
Speaker 2 00:34:12 Well, thanks very much. I think, uh, I think, I think that's, I think that's really inspiring and it's, it's good to know that we don't have to worry about achieving perfection.
Speaker 0 00:34:21 Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 00:34:22 Thanks so much for speaking on the US Law Central's Law Language podcast. Steven,
Speaker 0 00:34:25 You have a good week. Thank you very much
Speaker 2 00:34:28 And thank you for listening to the podcast. You have a good week as well. And stay essential.
