Speaker 0 00:00:00 Welcome to the U S law essentials law and language podcast, the legal English podcast for non-native English speakers. That helps you improve your English, listening, improve your legal English vocabulary and build your knowledge of American legal culture.
Speaker 1 00:00:17 Oh, the honorable.
Speaker 2 00:00:22 Welcome to us law essentials law and language podcast. I'm your host. Steven Horowitz today's episode continues our series of interviews with multi-lingual lawyers. Today's guest is Quintin Alexander, a litigation associate at the New York law firm of mulatto and ad Liftson where he specializes in complex commercial and real estate disputes, including cross border litigation, financial services, litigation, and alternative dispute resolution Quintin is originally from France where he received his bachelor's of law in German and French law at Centra Zoura, Deek, Franco, Alabama. Uh, he has a master's in European and international business law from the university Kapha leak, the Lil, uh, and an LLM in international and European trade and investment law from university today. Kathy Lee, dear Leon. I'm sure I'm butchering the pronunciation, but that's okay. I'll keep going. And oh, I can do this one and LLM in international business trade and commerce from St. John's law school in New York city Quintin has passed the bar exam in both New York and in France, and he also runs a wonderful blog called the international lawyer.org. Welcome Quintin. It's really great to have you.
Speaker 3 00:01:43 I, Steven, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 00:01:46 So first thing I want to ask you to Quintin. Um, well I know you've lived in other countries, clearly you grew up in France and now you live in New York. So you lived in the U S have you ever lived in any other countries other than New York and France? Yes.
Speaker 3 00:02:01 Uh, I've started to live in Germany. Uh, that's where I went to trade after high school, uh, when there to pursue my, uh, kind of my bachelor of flow. Uh, it was a double bachelor between France and Germany. So I spent two years in Germany, uh, at the, at the very border of France called SABIC and, uh, was there for two years. And then I decided to start learning English. And then I moved to Australia. I stayed there for a year, uh, to improve my English, uh, doing some kind of fraud trip. And then after that, I went back to France for a bit and then moved to the eighth to the U S
Speaker 2 00:02:43 Wait, you went to Australia to improve your English. You know, they walk funny over,
Speaker 3 00:02:50 That's actually a very funny story at the time I was trying to, you know, improve my English and I was looking to go to New York. Uh, I was looking at what's going on there with the program they have, uh, and, and nothing worked. They went there. I couldn't, I couldn't go there. So my second option was Australia and I found myself living at least for six months. I was living in the countryside of Australia. And as you said, like the English is quite different, but that was a very good experience though.
Speaker 2 00:03:21 Wow. Yeah, that must've been, and I'm sure in Australia, they might say the same thing about New York. Say that's not, you know, that's funny English. Awesome. And, and then, uh, and how is your German compared to your English?
Speaker 3 00:03:35 So my German is quite frustrating. I mean, I used to be, you know, belaying, well, I mean, I used to the German in high school. Uh, so the German in, during my ma my, uh, vaginal flow. So it was quite fluent. And then over the years, my English like rose, my English, like improved and my level of German, quite like the crease a bit. So every time I tried to find some German people in New York to speak German with them, uh, I still, you know, it's still very conversational, so I can understand, I can speak with other people, but it's not what it used to be. Oh,
Speaker 2 00:04:10 Yeah. Yeah. And it must be hard to have opportunities to speak in German with people from Germany, because we always joke that their English is better than ours. So that's,
Speaker 3 00:04:21 That's true that Danglish, you know, when, when I went there for school, I went there for school in high school at some point, and they were, they were playing drama piece, you know, they were, I can class, like the English classes were both playing dramas, uh, theater. And that was very impressive. You know, they were playing like Shakespeare and in France, we were still stuck about, you know, ways. Brian, Brian is in the kitchen. We were, that was really not what
Speaker 2 00:04:52 That, the name is Brian. That's the very American name that we used to learn about. Um, I think I took a French class once and it was about Jacques. So you speak German, French, and English, and you seem to be fluent in all of the, you would rank them. Your French is your best. I'm guessing.
Speaker 3 00:05:10 Yes. That would be my nice language. Then it will be English and it will be chairman.
Speaker 2 00:05:17 Can you tell a joke in any of the three languages?
Speaker 3 00:05:21 Oh, damn. Uh, when I would, that would require me to find job first in function.
Speaker 2 00:05:27 Oh, I'm not going to pay you on the spot. I'm not going to put you on this spot. I just, I was sort of trying to gauge your comfort at east in each language. And that's one of the things I like to think about, I think about, can you do it, can you do a joke in another language? And another thing is, can you do math in your head and like,
Speaker 3 00:05:45 Oh wow.
Speaker 2 00:05:46 You do math in your head in English.
Speaker 3 00:05:48 Yeah. That's for
Speaker 2 00:05:49 Sure. Yeah. And German.
Speaker 3 00:05:54 Yeah. I think, I think like easy math we'll be okay. But that will be the same in the, in French.
Speaker 2 00:06:01 Okay. Got it. Um, okay. Now in your work, do you use your, do you use French or German as well as English in your work?
Speaker 3 00:06:10 Um, it really depends. Not so much per se. Like tons of times we will have clients from the middle east, for instance, and we will speak French because that's one of the language that they speak sometimes in different countries. Um, he never happened, uh, I will speak German with a client. Um, I'm trying to think, no, I, I never had the occasion to speak German. Uh, but other times I had like, tons of times we speak French with like clients from the middle east or like if it's like from Europe.
Speaker 2 00:06:43 Oh, interesting. Yeah. Oh, I didn't, I didn't realize that. Um, and, um, how, how do you, if you had to explain what you do in your work to, um, a small child or to say a grandparent, how, how would you, uh, how would you explain it? Um,
Speaker 3 00:07:03 I think like you have to see it as, let's say you have two companies and the companies have a dispute over, you know, either it's a GSP to have a Marlin or any other kind of dispute and the contracts of the GSPs. So basically they come see me and I mean, one of the clients come see me and asking for my help to resolve the issue. So that's why I'm like, I'm kind of the guy in the middle trying to help my client, but also trying to have both the people to find like a solution that works for both of them.
Speaker 2 00:07:42 And then how would you explain it if you met another lawyer? So you're talking to a lawyer at a party and they say, oh, tell me about your work. What would you say?
Speaker 3 00:07:50 Well, I will say like I'm working in commercial litigation, which involves, um, handling litigation work are either true, you know, regular motion in court. Uh, it will be summary judgment motion for instance, but it would also involve some kind of mediation. So sometime the parties will decide to go to a mediator. And then my role will be to prepare the mediation statement and argue on behalf of a client and see if we can reach an agreement with everybody, uh, involved in the mediation process.
Speaker 2 00:08:27 And, and what kinds of clients are you working with? Are these, um, small companies, big companies, um, individual people.
Speaker 3 00:08:38 So the big chunk of what we do is that corporation, uh, we have, we, we do have the big corporation, uh, and it will involve purely like contractual matters, like dispute. Um, it would involve dispute over the language of the contract, for instance, although we do also have like medium companies restaurant, um, we do have, uh, you know, smaller companies. And then I would say the remaining of what we do is like individuals, but that's, that's, that's not so much what we do.
Speaker 2 00:09:15 And, and how has it, um, working in the us. Um, and I know, um, Americans and new Yorkers in particular often, um, you know, have have little patience with, with people from other countries, um, when they're talking. So as a lawyer and you meet your client and they recognize that you're from France, how, how do you, how do you deal with that? Or does that come up as an issue?
Speaker 3 00:09:40 That's a very good question. Um, it never, it never came to bother me so much, but yes, indeed. Like most of the clients on like, even the judge, for instance, they may actually, you know, find out that I'm from France or obviously something like a, for rhino. Uh, most of the time they won't say anything because especially in New York, people are very much used to different accent. So like, uh, uh, I think if there is a good place in America to hide your accent, there will be New York. Uh, but it happened one time I was, uh, in front of the judge and the judge was, you know, what, like, or did you just came from Paris, you know? And, and she was telling me about how she visited Paris and how much she loves France. And that was good. So did I read the motion though?
Speaker 3 00:10:26 And sometimes, sometime it does play in Ms. Data because I never heard anymore about saying any bad thing about France. Most of the time people have good memories from friends, either they've been there or they've heard about it and they love the country. And most of the time it's always about, you know, talking about their experiences and, you know, it's kind of like, it kind of create a connection that I might not have if I was like American. And sometime it makes a difference, you know, sometime, you know, uh, people are in Queens, uh, they, they gave me like a nickname. I was like the French lawyer, because then there's so many French lawyers that goes to court over there. And it was kind of funny because I don't go so much to Queens anymore, uh, in Colt, but I've heard from like other coworkers and colleagues that people say, so where is the French lawyer? You know, it's, it's, it kind of gives you, you know, some kind of, you know, some interesting character, some interesting background, and people are curious about what you do, especially in New York.
Speaker 2 00:11:32 And it sounds like, and they remember you too, the city full of lawyers, they remember you in Queens because you're the French lawyer.
Speaker 3 00:11:39 Exactly, exactly. And it seems
Speaker 2 00:11:42 Like, what is it? The old and the only one, it seems like, I mean, based on your experience. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:11:49 And nobody, I don't think there is so many, uh, French people doing purely like New York CLO, uh, with New York clients. But again, like one of them as we speak, like if you have something that is a bit more than you work, I think it plays in your favor because people, they don't want to talk, walk all the time. You know? Um, most of the time, whenever I have like a client conference, or even when I have a court conference, people will say, so how's everything in France, you know, it's, it's a nice highs break, a two that's one thing.
Speaker 2 00:12:23 Yeah. It really is a good icebreaker to have that. Um, so what, what does an average day of work look like for you? What kinds of things are you doing during the day?
Speaker 3 00:12:33 So it's, I mean, most of my day I spend like in front of the screen. So I would say when I stopped my damn trying to answer my emails, um, it could be email from clients requesting updates. It could be emails from opposing lawyers, you know, uh, asking for document or anything else. Um, and Dana will either drop my motion. We see what's going on in term of discovery, uh, because, um, I D I would draft responses to the discovery or either I would draft their requests. I would follow up on the request. So I kind of manage my case load as if it was, you know, my own clients. So I reached start from the inception to the resolution of the case, and that involves a lot of, uh, clients, uh, involves a lot of, uh, updating the clients, updating the court, writing my memorandum, but also sometimes involve a conference call with the curled, uh, conference. Uh, we used the mediator and also time to time scene frogs, uh, trial. But that's, uh, because of COVID, we are doing less than that.
Speaker 2 00:13:48 And what about depositions? Do you, do you do depositions fairly often?
Speaker 3 00:13:53 Oh, not the same, but we have that deposition time two times. Uh, we might have some coming up next months, uh, the in box, again, a case where the clients is abroad. So we need to, because, you know, people, whenever people are like, become like your adversary, they try to make your life harder. So rather than, you know, hiding a position through a video conference, people want to have an in-person deposition. So we have to, you know, we have to arrange for people to come back to New York to be present for the deposition. Um, and I'm, uh, but I'm always like in the room, uh, I haven't conducted a deposition. I did want to go go the like last year because of COVID. I assume we haven't had so much opportunities to take the positions.
Speaker 2 00:14:46 And, and have you done any COVID related litigation?
Speaker 3 00:14:50 Yes. Uh, we actually had a fairly interesting case, uh, involving a restaurant basically falling behind in term of rent, uh, because, because they was like shut down for like a few months. They couldn't, you know, they could not, they couldn't open the restaurant and, you know, it's a classic case of the landlord coming after the land, the restaurant for like the rent basically. Um, and, and this case was very interesting because we are good that, uh, the, the purpose of the lease was frustrated. It means basically, you know, in all of the lease, uh, it says that this building must be used as a full time, uh, restaurant, not a takeout restaurant, not a, uh, whatever, only restaurant we stable. And because of this specific provision, we managed to argue that because the restaurant was closed, therefore they could not do what the lease was intended for.
Speaker 3 00:15:51 It was impossible. So we argued that in front of the judge and the judge agreed with us, and it's actually, it's actually one of the rare case, because there's not so many cases in New York, uh, finding in favor of the restaurants, because basically restaurants were allowed to be open for takeout and therefore they should pay rent. But in our case, the lease was expressing the saying that you cannot do take out. And therefore the purpose of thirties was frustrated. And therefore, uh, the restaurant is actually some entitled to have like some form of like rent apartment, or like even like, just like a, um, just to have like the rent for given.
Speaker 2 00:16:34 And where were you surprised by that result or were you kind of hoping and expecting the judge to reach that result? Because you've you've
Speaker 3 00:16:41 Thank you guys. That the case was a little bit different. Uh, no, we, I think we went out to expanding that decision because, because at the end of the day, you still rent. Um, so the dependent Nick will excuse your performance under the lease for a few months where everything was closed, for sure, but technically you have obligation on their lease. And if you have nothing to defend yourself, basically, then you should pay your rent. You know, a lot of people, a lot of businesses are in the same situation. And in many cases, the courts, at least in New York found that those people were, you know, entitled to have their rent paid. Uh, so in that case was a bit different because of the specific provision of the lease. But, uh, we were not expecting that, but you should, I should mention that, um, this was a motion for summary judgment and that motion was denied. So most likely, no, you might go actually to an actual trial and we will have to convince a jury, uh, that the, that indeed prevented the restaurant, uh, to perform the duties.
Speaker 2 00:17:52 Wow. That's sounds like a really, really interesting and relevant case. Um, what, speaking of restaurants, when you want really good French food, where do you go in New York? Do you have a preferred place?
Speaker 3 00:18:06 I have a place, but I don't want to say any bad thing. It's called the low value bakery. Um, I'm trying to check if it's yes, it's French. Good. Cause sometimes I'll tell them I'm from the south of France. So we, you know, drove, there was a dispute between, uh, uh, was from Belgium or France has the best food, but it's friends. Um, but the minivan bakery, if you, if you like, like good cookies, those are exceptional cookies. Uh, they have that different location in the city. It's mostly like on the upper west side. Uh, I'm not sure if they do delivery because of COVID they might be, I don't know, but those are exceptional.
Speaker 2 00:18:48 We'll put a link to it in the show notes for
Speaker 3 00:18:51 Sure. Oh, I mean, yeah, definitely like for commanded.
Speaker 2 00:18:56 And, and, um, what advice, um, have you received in your career or in your years of studying, um, that, that you found perhaps the most helpful?
Speaker 3 00:19:09 Um, what I think, I think being a lawyer is being ferry. You know, you have to listen, you have to make sure that you actually listen. You know, a lot of people, you know, look at you, but then they actually not listening to you. So whenever you client says something, you have to make sure that you get the full story, the full background and the food data arts, because it will be then you job to take everything you've heard and put it like in writing, like in your papers and make sure that you convey, you know, the background to the judge. So listening is very important. And, uh, someone, someone said to me do not make assumption. Uh, if you don't know something, just recognize that you don't know something, learn it and move from there because sometimes, you know, you will happen to me that I get a case and, you know, the, the men were in face of familiar in front of me will say, well, uh, let's move to these days, you know, in two weeks time for discovery and you wouldn't, you might say, okay, let's do it. But then you realize that either it's short notice or either there's something, or either the opposing side tried to trick you. So sometime like you might think, you know, stuff and you might think, okay, well, I think I know what it is. So you go, who is it? And then it's not what you think. And then you might be trapped, you know? Uh, so no make assumption and always ask the question.
Speaker 2 00:20:39 So sort of like the opposite of fake it till you make
Speaker 3 00:20:42 It
Speaker 2 00:20:44 Very common maximum these days. I think, you know, the fast moving world, but being a lawyer, you have to sort of do the opposite of that.
Speaker 3 00:20:51 I mean, you know, I, I love that. Uh, that's a sentence, you know, uh, I think it was her Franklin Roosevelt saying that like, if you don't know something, say yes, and then you learn it. Uh, and I think it's relevant for lawyers, you know, uh, you go out of those schools fresh off our first call. You don't know the actual practice of law, you know, you, you, I mean, you might have the moot court competition and stuff like that, but being in the real world is different. And, you know, I don't think, I don't think we have classes that put discovery, for instance, I don't think we have classes about taking the position. Uh, so whenever someone says, can you tell you the position, if you say yes, then you, you better make sure that you learn about it and, you know, learn the strategy because it's really, really something different.
Speaker 2 00:21:41 Good, good advice. Um, and the last thing I want to ask you about is, um, a blog that you run called the international lawyer.org. What, what, uh, what's the blog about and what led you to start it?
Speaker 3 00:21:53 So it's basically a blog. I started a few years ago, uh, to help NLM students. Uh, I was one of the first LLM students coming to St. John's from, uh, the Leon Catholic university. Uh, it was kind of a fresh program. Um, and after I took the bags on, I think every few weeks I had students coming to me, you know, asking the question about the bags, um, about what classes to take. And, and I realized, you know, they, they were like a need, um, for associates, for people, you know, to understand what it is to study in America. So I started this blog with like advice for the bags zone, uh, advice for Kara after graduation, um, what classes to take, um, and the order kind of thing for like, mostly like for an incidents. But over time I realized that I also have a lot of, uh, American students coming on the blog and reading, especially about the bags, because it's, one-off like, it's one of the most stressing experience that you have in law school. Now. I think people feel good whenever they read that book prior experiences. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:23:08 Very helpful to know what other people have gone through. Um, okay. Well, thank you so much, Quintin. It's been a real pleasure having you on here and hearing all of your, your interesting and unique perspectives. Um, thank you for being here.
Speaker 3 00:23:22 Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure
Speaker 2 00:23:25 And everybody else. Thanks for listening to us. Law essentials, law and language podcast, and stay essential
Speaker 4 00:23:32 Danielson. Thank you for listening to the U S law Central's lawn language podcast. Remember you can follow us on LinkedIn and on Facebook, and you can also visit the us law essentials
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